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Post by Doubar on Dec 27, 2011 15:56:19 GMT -5
Thank you!  Nothing to thank me for! It's me who should thank you for telling us about this sweet idea.  Uh, no one in particular. *whistles neat tune and walks past Doubar faking innocence* ;D But seriously, your and my ideas and observations fit together perfectly. :3 Lol, right! And I'd have LOVED to see her face then! ;D ;D ;D You got a point there, yes.  Ooh, I see. Alright, my bad then. I guess I kinda misunderstood this part then. But I totally see your point now. And yeah, seen from this POV I'd agree with you. *ponders* Humm... actually I don't know whether he would have left without alarming anyone. Guess I never thought about that thoroughly. xD You might be right though: most likely he'd have made anyone else notice before running off to where the sound came from. |
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Post by Dermott on Dec 29, 2011 11:35:39 GMT -5
Oh Maeve, dear, I’m kind of speechless, this is what I should call a monumental job.  Thank you so much for sharing your insight to the world.  I’ve read it rabidly here and there (the most important parts) but I’ll surely finish it in detail as soon as possible. I feel the same way I felt years ago after season 1 ended and I couldn’t wait to know more, and then S2 broke my heart leaving me with this unpleasant void and the need to fill it with a proper conclusion.  Your explanations felt like this conclusion, and made me all dreamy and giddy about aos all over again, reminding why I love so much this ship. And I kind of like the angst provided by season 2. If channeled better it could have become a great season (you know, if the characters wouldn’t have all turned into mono-nodimensional people), they just needed to insert all the things left behind between the lines, the way you did it with Sinbad’s inner turmoil. I wouldn’t lost an episode if the series had been executed like that. Even If I agree with you guys that there are very good episodes which provide a lot of new essential stuff for aos-verse (the adventurers, Rongar’s past and so on) I’ll comment the eps point by point next time, for now I just wonder , other than “what was Sinbad thinking”, and “what was Maeve doing” during the dark year… What was the hell Rumina doing? What was Turok doing? What was Caipra doing?  What was all the people connected to S1-verse doing?  That’s the fun in being part of a rpg I suppose. We can fill the gaps ourselves with our own imagination. ;D ;D And I can’t wait for the upcoming fan-videos, the one with the “who do you want me to be” was simply perfect. |
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Post by Maeve on Dec 29, 2011 11:55:29 GMT -5
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Post by Doubar on Dec 31, 2011 7:55:20 GMT -5
I haven't yet managed to read all parts but I'm through the first of your two posts. And really love it all. :3 There's only one question that I found was nagging on my mind while reading: I was wondering whether you think that Maeve as well knew/was aware all the things you mentioned, or whether what you wrote down was more like your external observations and Maeve knows only half the things you as the watcher know. I was wondering because often you said "he thinks of Maeve" but I guess Maeve wouldn't be able to know that, or would she? |
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Post by banmaixanh on Jan 1, 2012 9:09:38 GMT -5
I haven't read them all, just some episodes which I like as the sacrifice, the passengers and some other episodes. I really like them. I love the way you show me the positive side of Sinbad's action. I love how you explain why he did what he did, why he told what he told. What you wrote gives me another look at the season two of the show, and as you said I don't feel too bad when I watch season two now even I still cannot totally accept that season. I can say that you're really sensitive when you found out all things which I also watched but couldn't see. But I wanna ask you that did you write what you thought about season two, or you write about what Maeve saw through her seeing pool? Because when I read it, I had a feeling that you said something like your opinion, your thinking about Sinbad's action especial when you said, "he thinks about Maeve." Actually, as a watcher I couldn’t really find out if he thought about Maeve that moment or not. I did check what I read. Something was very clear, especial in the sacrifice, the passenger, and the return of the Ronin but something didn't show clearly. So I don’t think Maeve would able to see all things. The SacrificeThe opening and the ending of The Sacrifice is two scenes I like best in season two. The opening is too painful to see Maeve was washed over-board and Sinbad looked for her hopelessly in the middle of the storm. The ending is also hurt when I saw Sinbad stepped on board looked for Maeve and turned to Doubar with the hope that he had found Maeve already, that she wasn't on deck but in her cabin or else. I think he really thought that Doubar had found Maeve when he saw Doubar after he had saved Bryn. I agree with you about what you said about this episode (except some details I cannot see if it's true maybe I'm not as sensitive as you are). This episode is the most beautiful episode of the season two. Even though, this is only my own opinion, I don’t like this episode much. Except the opening and the ending, in whole episode, Sinbad didn't think about Maeve as much as he should. Of course, there are some scenes in the ep like you already said he mentioned about Maeve and didn't accept the possibility that she might be gone. However, with me, it's not enough. I've watched another show where the man must save another person when the woman he loved also in danger, but he cannot save her. The emotion showed clearly on his face. I see how much he cared for the safety of the person he was trying to save and how much he worried about his woman. Sinbad is totally different with him. Sometime, he worried for Maeve so much in this eps, sometime it seems like he totally forgot that Maeve was missing. And I hate the way he accepted that he would never meet her again. I know you all think this scene is beautiful but with me, it's not. I wanted him to find her. I want him to believe that she was still alive, he just hadn't found her, and he must keep hoping and finding her. I want him to believe that she was somewhere out there that she wasn't dead because he hadn't found her body. He is very stubborn but why this time he wasn't stubborn enough to keep believing. He survived through the storm. He hadn't found Maeve's body. There was nothing to say that she was gone. But he gave up so easy. He didn't keep that hope long enough. If he had kept believing or hoping, I would haven't needed the sentences Dim Dim told him at the end of this episode to keep watching AOS, and also I wouldn't have felt so disappointed when I saw his change during the season two. Because when he trusted in something unreal, it could be easy to explain why he acted that way. But when Dim Dim told him that, Maeve was safe, it's no reason for him to act like that. He must know it's only for her safety. He must understand that she would come back. Acting like that didn't persuade me that he was hurt but told me that he wasn't as strong as the people told about him. I can understand what you wrote and I agree he was hurt when he thought his protection wasn't enough for her but it was his fist sacrifice for his love. Why couldn't he do it, why was he so selfish. The Return Of The RoninI could only agree with you. I don't like the way they created the bond between Bryn and Sinbad by setting up the special meaning for the bracelets, but I have never thought those stupid bracelets mean something like love. The producers showed us so clearly the connection between Sinbad and Tetsu in this episode to let us know that it doesn't mean love. It only means friendship or something like that. My sister even doesn't think that it is a thing which the god gives the kind people. She said if it is the god better gave it to Maeve not Bryn, who is Rumina's sister or Sinbad, who treats women like his toy. The PassengersYou’re right about the mark. My heart ached when I re-watched this episode and noticed the mark, especial the moment he looked at the mark. I could well see how much he was hurt. Other episodes, I can't say anything except you really did a good job. |
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Post by Doubar on Jan 1, 2012 14:11:32 GMT -5
Sometime, he worried for Maeve so much in this eps, sometime it seems like he totally forgot that Maeve was missing. I know exactly what you mean, Ban. And guess that most of us feel the same way about this. And it was exactly this one thing which put so many fans off if you ask me. I mean, there were so many changes from S1 to S2 but I'm sure most fans would have gotten used to them, had they just worked the changing cast-thing better. But if we leave aside all the things Maeve saw and which we all want to be true, we have to face the fact that the directors/script-writers didn't care much for continuity and for a slow and sensible change. Would it have hurt to make Sinbad really search for Maeve instead of giving Bryn these odd looks (like when they just escaped the giant squirrel and instantly met the natives)? So yes, I know what you mean and it's something we all pity. Yet of course, with all what Maeve found, we have something to believe in - even if the producers and script-writers did not really intend these things to have that meaning. ;D @dermott: These are good questions indeed! But you are right: luckily we can answer them ourselves. Hehe. ;D |
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Post by banmaixanh on Jan 2, 2012 3:50:56 GMT -5
Sometime, he worried for Maeve so much in this eps, sometime it seems like he totally forgot that Maeve was missing. I know exactly what you mean, Ban. And guess that most of us feel the same way about this. And it was exactly this one thing which put so many fans off if you ask me. Over here, they only have the DVD of the season one of the show and some television only play the season one because the audiences don't care much about season two. we have to face the fact that the directors/script-writers didn't care much for continuity and for a slow and sensible change. So sad but you're right. They didn't care at all. You know, compare with all shows which I watched the season two of AOS is the worst. I only love season one of the shows, and sometime I forget that the season two is also called AOS and that man is also called Sinbad. With me if I forget all things which happened in season one (I mean the relationship between Maeve and Sinbad to accept the new Sinbad), it's also not good because the way they kicked Maeve out of the show and the way they mentioned about her in the last episode of the show are very stupid. It likes Sinbad has a wound on his hand, but he has never noticed it, but one day he remembers that "Oh, I have a wound on my hand" and he screams out like it hurts him very bad. Even if I accept that thing and accept the season 2 as the independent show (I mean that it doesn't have any connection with the season one except the characters and Maeve had never existed) the sacrifice is still the stupid episode (even in the relation with the season one it's the best ep in this season). I think that you can notice how crazy this episode is. The man who had been ready risked his life to save the woman who had been washed over-board last night could easily be..., like you said, with the women he met the first time when the woman he called "how much I care" was missing. I didn't need to put this ep into the relation with the season one to cannot accept that. All things in that ep have a weak connection, they don't fit together. Yes, whatever, no one forbids us to believe in them. ;D |
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Post by Maeve on Jan 3, 2012 14:31:36 GMT -5
@doubar&Ban: Well, as I mentioned in my first presentation post, everything you read in this project is a mix between my own interpretations and Maeve's observations. Of course, Maeve's perceptions aren't as deep and complex as the ones I sketched out, but as Doubar mentioned, she's somewhat aware of half the things I wrote. For example, she may not believe that Sinbad thought about her when he spoke with Vaughn in Castle Keep while looking for hidden people in the rooms (that's mostly just me making an interpretation), and she may not believe she was on his mind while he was fighting against prince Veedon in Survival Run, but she does believe he thought about her in The Minotaur when Amphitrite asked him trice what it was that he desired, and she does believe that he thought about her in The Gift, and that she was somehow linked to his anger in The Passenger, etc. But again, in the numerous little minor moments I pinpointed with "He thinks of Maeve", she most likely believes in only half of them. Now, I'm sorry if it sometimes takes me a while to reply to everything you guys comment here, but it's just so long to write back my POV and explain everything that's on my mind! I just have a lot of things to say, but not enough patience to write it all down! Sorry about that. I'm doing my best. But hey, if you want to discuss certain things more thoroughly, you can always Skype me. It'd be much easier and quicker for me to explain things live than to write it all down. |
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Rongar
Second Mate
An expressive face reveals every happiness and woe...
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Post by Rongar on Jan 4, 2012 19:07:04 GMT -5
Wow!
That's a lot, but I totally agree in some cases Ban.
I have to say, there are some Real Life reasons as to why Maeve/Jacky left the show, the abrruptness, the 'higer-ups' taking control to turn a 12-15 year old themed show into the new 'Baywatch', the quickness of Bryn/Miriah's hiring, ect....that contributed to the disjointedness, but I do agree...with EVERYTHING said here and more! LOL
And I've been a proud member of AOS for over 15 years! LOL!!
In fact, my friend, thought that season 2 Sinbad was an evil/alternate dimension Sinbad when she compared him to season 1 Sinbad's personality! LOL
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Post by Doubar on Jan 5, 2012 12:52:38 GMT -5
Over here, they only have the DVD of the season one of the show and some television only play the season one because the audiences don't care much about season two. Oh, really? That's interesting! To be honest I don't know whether audience here does care much about S2. But in any case they did broadcast all two seasons. What we don't have at all though are DVDs. You can't get one in all Europe. I think the fandom's just too small for anyone to produce the disks.  But I know exactly what you mean. Though they reasons for Jacky's leaving are understandable somehow, I, too, don't like at all how the show dealt with it. I mean, sure, I understand they suddenly had to replace the character, knowing full well that a new leading lady was necessary. Still I think they could have handled things elsewise: introduce Bryn another way. Make her be a real character and not a replacement, and have Sinbad act accordingly to S1. I remember, in the many talks we already had here at DL about these circumstances, many times the series 'Charmed' has been mentioned as a good example of how the sudden parting of a main actor can be dealt with. In this series one of the protagonists had to be replaced, too, but they handled it all in a very sensitive way; had the remaining two sisters really mourn and had them even have a hard time accepting the new sister themselves. It gave the audience a chance to get used to it all, to understand the new dynamics and - and this is most important in my POV - gave the show a chance to actually develop a new dynamics. AoS instead just changed from one ep to the other - from S1 to S2 and the audience was left to accept or stop watching. ;D Rumina: Oh thanx for clarifying. I already suspected it was like that, but wanted to ask nevertheless.  Aha, and I think you're doing great so far with answering our questions and comments to your thoughts. |
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Fireland
Seaman
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Post by Fireland on Jan 18, 2012 1:06:48 GMT -5
Maeve, I can't believe that even lurking, I missed that post. This is incredible !!! I can't believe the amount of work you did. And I must say, I only read your intro, and felt EXACTLY as you described about s2, the hurt, the anger ... almost as if today I still had some kind of grieving to do about S1 and how the show disrupted the storyline and characters after ... except now, I actually want to see it. Because you give me hope, as ''weird'' as it seems to talk about hope when it comes to a TV show I promise to read everything carefully and then, I will finally start to watch S2 because of you |
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Fireland
Seaman
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Post by Fireland on Jan 18, 2012 1:35:04 GMT -5
Oh and I was also wondering : why stop 2 episodes from the end ? Isn't Hell House the episode where he thinks Maeve is back and goes for her ?
Does the serie really shows ''Maeve'' looking through the pool, or again, is it only your interpretation ? Because it ends on a sad note, saying that Maeve thought Sinbad had forgotten about her, while he later hopes he found her, realized how bad he's become after he lost her (even though his soul is still pure), and the season ends that way (for what I remember ?)
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Post by Doubar on Jan 18, 2012 13:24:27 GMT -5
Does the serie really shows ''Maeve'' looking through the pool, or again, is it only your interpretation ? No, sadly enough the show did never show something like this. However, for the rpg Maeve decided that the Celt was watching Sinbad from the Hidden Realm. And as far as I know it that's just why the idea for that project came to life. Because she wanted to know what S2 was actually like so that she could rp Maeve better. Maybe Maeve wanted to stop watching the show at exactly that point where she guesses the Celt stopped watching the crew, too. Think it's about not wanting to have knowledge about things that the Celt could not know about. However, I wondered about that, too. Because actually I'd love to read about the other eps (and especially Hell House [though that one's so obvious *loves*] ;D ), too. Rumina&Fireland: I hope you two do not mind me answering some of the questions.  Fireland: Awww, great avatar!!! |
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Fireland
Seaman
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Post by Fireland on Jan 18, 2012 13:43:40 GMT -5
I don't mind at all, thank you for the precisions !
I haven't had the chance yet to read some of the RPGs, and I'm not really familiar with the rules and everything. And since I didn't watch S2 either, I thought maybe the seeing pool was part of the show (just like Rumina sometimes used one too, in s1).
I agree that Hell House is obvious about Sinbad's feelings for Maeve. As many S1 fans, I have seen the first and last episodes of S2 and that was enough for me. I felt it was all I needed to know, I almost felt intrusive to follow Sinbad's downpath (with the killings and being a womanizer), as if I was watching someone in distress, struggling with life. I don't know how to explain it better ... but to me if I had known someone like Sinbad who was always cheering at life, having great humour, suddenly turning like a ''badass'' version of himself, I would think that person was going through a very hard time in his life.
And with The Sacrifice and Hell House, I believe this is exactly what S2, in its darkness, was about. I mean, if the scriptors had wanted to kill Maeve, they could have. It's the classical way series get rid of characters they don't want. But why insist so much on her return, on the fact she's alive ? Why trick Sinbad in Hell House ? Any woman in danger could have been used by Scratch to get Sinbad's attention ; but he chose Maeve as a decoy. To me it all makes sense after all. He's rebelling against life, against pain, just like any human tends to react when facing a broken heart, when grieving.
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Fireland
Seaman
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Post by Fireland on Jan 18, 2012 14:01:45 GMT -5
I have to say, I reacted the same way about House's last season. Lisa Edelstein, who played Dr Cuddy, left for monetary reasons and I guess other reasons we don't know about. But when the whole serie draws the audience into the flirting of two main characters, when they see the relationshio evolve, they just feel tricked and betrayed when the scriptors make changes or don't deal well with actors leaving. To me, House without Cuddy is not worth watching.
On the other hand, I had trouble with John Doggett, the special agent in X-Files who ''replaced'' Fow Mulder as Scully's partner. But the transition was slow, the friendship (and maybe affection ? it was not always explicite) between the two was growing, just as Mulder and Scully's relationship developed over the years. And at the end, I really liked that character. I didn't feel he was a replacement for Mulder, since he helped Scully searching for him. I guess that's where AoS didn't get it. I guess they thought the fans would simply forget about Maeve over time and believe in the relationship between Bryn and Sinbad (though, I agree it looks more like a friendship, or even some kind of brother/sisterhood).
In the episode with Turan and Gia (sic?), at the end, when Turan looked at Sinbad and told him he was settling down to raise a family, Sinbad did look to Maeve and answered he would probably, one day. Honestly, I think it's quite impossible to lose someone you fantasize to raise a family with (and under such dramatic circumstances), and just be happy with life afterwards. The ''M/S storyline'' is still there in s2 I believe, but is still a draft. We still have at least the first and last ep of S2 to remind us about it.
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I totally agree with your point of view. Doubar is the main thing on Sinbad's mind from the moment he gets bitten. But when he's staring out to the sea, it just seems to me like he's been there for a looooong time, trying to sort the hellish situation out and struggling to find another solution to free his brother, and brooding over a lot of things. And I totally agree with you that those things, from beginning to end, concern Doubar, who's been a brother, a father, a friend, a confident and a protector to him ever since he was a baby. But, since with this project I mainly focused my energies on the moments where Maeve was on his mind, here I concentrated on that moment and emphasized it. Because I DO believe that he's mad at her a little at that moment, because she's the reason he's grown so reckless. But I know that that thought about her must have been very fleeting considering how devastated he was about Doubar. It's just that to stay true to my project's purpose, I placed my emphasis on that little fleeting thought about Maeve. 
I’ve read it rabidly here and there (the most important parts) but I’ll surely finish it in detail as soon as possible. I feel the same way I felt years ago after season 1 ended and I couldn’t wait to know more, and then S2 broke my heart leaving me with this unpleasant void and the need to fill it with a proper conclusion. 
Your explanations felt like this conclusion, and made me all dreamy and giddy about aos all over again, reminding why I love so much this ship.
