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Post by manche on Jul 11, 2013 12:21:58 GMT -5
The great episode of this season.
The plot was interesting, i did not expect the twist which happened in the middle of the episode with Bellamur as he suddenly became the bad guy.
The usage of magic by Maeve there were two great scenes, the first was very funny: "What do you want me to do? You can’t just point your finger at the thing and yell STOP, and it stops." the second was more powerful, i like the red flash in her eyes.
Turhan's character was also interesting for me, how he became the friend with Sinbad, although was mentioned that they had some disputes in the past.
How Doubar helped Maeve during the fight, he really treated towards her as an older caring brother. A little similar thing was between Rongar and Firouz, how Rongar helped him during the fight, they really had the very close friendship. And the opening relaxation was great.
The funny scene was how the crew tried to get rid of the poisonous lizard and how Sinbad finally saved Maeve before bitting.
And the ending scene, when Turhan recommended Sinbad to settle down and start a family. The clear reference to the relationship between Maeve and Sinbad. It was very funny how the crew had the fun from them. And the final line of Jial: "They do make a handsome couple." I completely agree with her.
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Post by hannibal on Jul 21, 2013 11:38:08 GMT -5
I agree with you Manche. This is one of my favorite episode from season 1!!
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Post by Doubar on Jul 21, 2013 12:56:31 GMT -5
I agree as well. This was a very lovely ep indeed.  And Maeve's famous line with the "point your finger and yell stop" is just too awesome. ;D |
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Post by manche on Jul 21, 2013 13:27:20 GMT -5
I agree as well. This was a very lovely ep indeed. And Maeve's famous line with the "point your finger and yell stop" is just too awesome. ;D I agree, one of her best scenes in the whole TV series. |
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Post by tzigone on Feb 24, 2015 9:56:27 GMT -5
I dislike this episode. The more I think about it, the more I dislike it. What absolutely infuriates me is how they don't listen to Jahele (Jial? I'm not sure how to spell it). Okay, I'll admit that there was care taken in establishing in the beginning that one man was a rogue and the other a known hero. But that should never have outweighed what she, herself, had to say. At least Sinbad realized there was a problem, but he allowed it to be easily brushed aside by Firouz. I know they were in a hurry at first because they were under attack, but even after the others had escaped and had a few minutes downtime, the others still made no attempt to determine what the woman had to say about the matter. And I admit that I doubt a grown man's words would have been as easily dismissed. But the biggest problem is that I think it's out of character for our crew (particularly Sinbad) not to talk to her and find out what's going on before dragging her away.
The follow up to this is Sinbad changing his tune when Turhan wants to die without his love. There are people out there who'd commit suicide over unreturned affection. That he really wants her has no bearing at all on what she wants. And it hammers in even more how the man gets listened to more than the woman. And Turhan even wanting to die is really annoying to me. It's all about his happiness - what about maybe trying to rescue your enslaved love? What, once the other guy puts his hands on her, it's all over? No worth left, no reason to try to rescue her? I guess what we're supposed to get out of this is that he thinks if he loses her now, she's gone forever and he'll never get her back (I don't think he thinks she'll be killed?), but it's not very logical. I guess he's just defeatist.
Now, there are bits I like. I like Maeve commenting on Dermott being right there and Firouz not really noticing her empahsis. Maeve's "STOP!" scene is funny. And, of course, I like the Sinbad/Maeve shippiness at the end with Sinbad getting laughed at by his crew. But that's outweighed by how completely ignored Jial is.
Inconsistency: Maeve's "my hands are tied" - she's used magic when her hands were tied before ("The Beast Within", "The Ties that Bind") so that doesn't really work for me.
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Post by manche on Feb 24, 2015 14:41:37 GMT -5
Although I like this episode, I agree that it was strange that nobody from the crew (with an exception of Sinbad a little) was suspicious of the fact that Jial did not want to go with them. They were in hurry at first but later during waiting for Sinbad was a lot of time to talk with her. Maybe Firouz considered himself to be such an expert in psychology that he is able to diagnose the affection to the keeper as a reason of her behaviour? And the rest of the crew simply accepted this conclusion? I though also for some time why Jial did not say it to them herself but I realized after that she did not probably have any idea who they are and she probably considered them to be some Bellamur's friends who know the whole truth about their case and they simply want to return her to him.
And with Turhan, I would say that he really thought that Bellamur plans to kill Jial. According his character I would guess that this was more about revenge from his side, that he wanted her back because he wanted to punish her that she dares to leave him, not because he was in love with her. He would revenge both of them in this way. Also Turhan knew that Jial would not submit to Bellamur which would lead to her death as well. We do not know which concrete plans Bellamur really had with her, but Turhan could assume that Bellamur wants to kill her.
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Post by tzigone on Feb 24, 2015 15:10:48 GMT -5
Maybe. But it seemed to be he wanted her back. That she was unconsenting didn't matter to him. I would say "if he wanted her dead, why bother kidnapping her?" but I can get the idea that Turhan might at least think Bellamur wanted to kill her personally. Or at least wanted to rape her before killing her.
There are several things that just aren't logical to me. Turhan has met, and fought, Sinbad. He should know Sinbad's noble nature. Instead of sending guys to threaten to kill him, he just needed to say "hey, let's talk" and then tell him his story, and let them talk to Jial. Sure, they might not believe anything (could think she was afraid for her life so lied about wanting to be with him), but if that's the case, he could just wait and attack them then. I'm not saying there's no risk involved in that plan, but it still seems the wiser course, to me. Heck, even have the threateners say "she chose to be with Turhan; try to take her and you die" - just get the idea in their heads she's there willingly.
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Post by manche on Feb 24, 2015 15:30:43 GMT -5
I thought it in this way that Bellamur would want to kill her personally as the best possible revenge for both and he wanted to do it himself because it was an enormous insult for him.
And agree that the attempt to talk with Sinbad would be wiser, but I think that Turhan did not know who was sent to rescue Jial (he recognized him during the attack to the camp) and if he thought that Bellamur sent some men loyal to him for Jial before that, he knew that the talking with them would be senseless, they would know the truth and they would try to kidnap her.
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Post by tzigone on Feb 24, 2015 17:15:10 GMT -5
Fair enough. I had been thinking the second attack on Sinbad was Turhan's guys, but that was another group of Bellamur's, wasn't it? So Turhan gets a pass. Jial gets one, too, I agree. I mean they said "we're here to rescue you" but she's a normal (non-adventurer) person as far as I can tell and may not be listening to closely to what the people who are gagging her and tying her up are saying. I probably wouldn't be.
But Sinbad and his crew still don't get one. My biggest problem is how they don't listen to Jial, and that doesn't go away.
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Post by Doubar on Feb 26, 2015 15:16:32 GMT -5
The way I understood it, Bellamur didn't necessarily want to kill Jial. Instead, he wanted her as a possession. The beautiful little thing that has to obey is every wish. If she'd had put up too much of a fight against him he possibly wouldn't have refrained from hurting or even killing her, but it didn't seem like this was his main goal. Indeed the attacks on Sinbad have all been executed by Bellamur's people and were meant to assure Sinbad of who was the good and who was the bad one in this. Though, if you think about it: Back in those days Turhan has been a pirate which made those two be adversaries. And not every opponent of Sinbad gets to see his noble nature. We have no clue as to what their story is but it never seemed unreasonable to me that Turhan didn't trust him. Sinbad in turn was tricked into believing Turhan had turned from a somewhat "decent" pirate (if there even is such a thing) into a rogue, and while it is easy for us to be bothered by the fact I can see how that could happen. Last but not least concerning Jial: now, that's a shame indeed. It was obvious she truly didn't want to go, but considering the so called Stockholm Syndrome does exist and that it can even lead to victims defending their captors I cannot help but let it pass. The crew's big mistake in this whole thing was that they let themselves be played like a set of chess figures. There were quite some hints and clues that could have told them that things aren't quite as they think they are, but given they've seen the seemingly desperate and loving husband (who to their knowledge is an honourable merchant no less!), been attacked by "Turhan's" guys and then found a hidden and defended camp... I don't know. It seems to me anyone could have been fooled that way.  |
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Post by manche on Feb 26, 2015 15:27:14 GMT -5
Your analysis is very good, Doubar. I had some doubts about certain points there, but your explanation makes good sense and although there were some obvious clues that something is wrong, I think that their fooling is believable and that it could happen to anyone.
And that Bellamur did not probably plan to kill Jial does not mean that Turhan could not assume that Bellamur wants to do it.
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Post by Doubar on Feb 26, 2015 15:51:59 GMT -5
And that Bellamur did not probably plan to kill Jial does not mean that Turhan could not assume that Bellamur wants to do it. Oh, definitely. Let alone that even without her life in immindent danger it was ovbious that Bellamur had little to no care for Jial's well-being. Turhan was well adviced to protect his love like this. P.S.: Thanks! I'm glady my ponderings make sense.  |
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Post by manche on Feb 26, 2015 16:19:18 GMT -5
Sinbad in turn was tricked into believing Turhan had turned from a somewhat "decent" pirate (if there even is such a thing) into a rogue, and while it is easy for us to be bothered by the fact I can see how that could happen. Could not be for example Talya such a kind of pirate? I am only joking (but in comparison with different known pirates I think that she would not be able to kill someone, at least a good man) |
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Post by Doubar on Feb 26, 2015 16:29:35 GMT -5
Aye, considering that in the AoS world honourable pirates do exist, Talya definitely is one of them. |
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Post by manche on Feb 26, 2015 16:43:18 GMT -5
Aye, considering that in the AoS world honourable pirates do exist, Talya definitely is one of them. Maybe the term a little more honourable pirate would be more precise. She did not kill but I think that she did not have any problem with stealing before the adventure with The eye of Kratos (and maybe after that also, who knows?) |
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And Maeve's famous line with the "point your finger and yell stop" is just too awesome. ;D
