Post by Sinbad on Jun 18, 2009 17:41:58 GMT -5
World history from whatver time and country can be discussed here.
Transferring to history thread.
SINBAD
Hitler was not even German.
FIROUZ
Really. What was he then?
SINBAD
He was Austrian.
FIROUZ
Hmmm, then why did he lead Germany? Why did he not lead Austria? But that explains why he invaded Austria first.
SINBAD
He was born in Austria and he was an Austrian. But his ideology was partly founded on the belief in a so called "Großdeutsches Reich" (big German empire) which meant that he thought Germany should annect Austria (which later he did). And since his activities were reaching into Germany and ... yeah. There was no law prohibiting him become chancelor.
Btw, the idea that he took over is wrong, too. Hitler was appointed, legally appointed. Which makes the story even more sad. It worked with repression, thread and humiliation, but the president made him chancellor and the political parties let it happen because they believed they could keep him in check. Had the social democrats and the communists worked together (like it happened in some other European countries where right wing powers were on the rise - that was a trend at the time btw. If you compare Europe around 1900 and around 1900 and the numbers of totalitarian and democratic nations... looked bad for democracy on a whole), he could easily have been kept in check. And had the Christian democrats not been sissy and humiliated, he would not have been made chancellor.
FIROUZ
So they did not work together. Politicians never do. ;D
SINBAD
Yep. It was an explosive mix at the time. Very problematic social circumstances of a post WWI nation that was traumatised by the lost war (because the defeat came as a total surprise, since people were told that they were still on the winning side), a society in uproar (fear of communism rising in Russia, homecoming soldiers with no place left for them in society, a democracy forced upon a nation not used to democracy that had no trust in parties and politcians), no experience in how to do democracy... add an evil mind like Hitler who grew up in that world to it and: boom!
FIROUZ
My history teacher said that if Hitler tried to help the Russian people overthrow Stalin, then Germany could have won the war.
SINBAD
That´s an interesting theory, but I would say it was not what Hitler wanted, because he didn´t want to colaborate with the Russians. His aim was not to just take over Russia from Stalin, he wanted the land, not its people. According to his hideous ideology, wars served the purpose of "expanding habitat" if you will. He had millions of Russians killed and had programs to settle "Aryan" people in the deserted areas of Russia and other countries east of Germany. The Russian people didn´t matter to him, therefore colaborating with them was not in his field of vision.
FIROUZ
Yes, but if he was smart, then he would have tricked the Russian people that he was helping them to overthrow Stalin. Once Stalin was gone, he could finish taking over Russia.
SINBAD
Well... true. But hey, look at the crap that man wrote. "Smart" is nowhere near the top of the list of adjectives to describe him.
RONGAR
Perhaps, but he didn't so that's a good thing.
Didn't the British PM at that time, and the other UN countries allow him to take more land to appease him though?
I seem to remember my college World History class say something to that effect...?
SINBAD
The other European countries (even the vatican) internationally accepted him first, yes.
Poland literally was wiped off the world map because Stalin and Hitler divided it among themselves.
And one more thing about actions of e.g. the British: I still wonder why none of the bomber fligts they did ever targetted the railway lines towards the concentration camps.
Transferring to history thread.
SINBAD
Hitler was not even German.
FIROUZ
Really. What was he then?
SINBAD
He was Austrian.
FIROUZ
Hmmm, then why did he lead Germany? Why did he not lead Austria? But that explains why he invaded Austria first.
SINBAD
He was born in Austria and he was an Austrian. But his ideology was partly founded on the belief in a so called "Großdeutsches Reich" (big German empire) which meant that he thought Germany should annect Austria (which later he did). And since his activities were reaching into Germany and ... yeah. There was no law prohibiting him become chancelor.
Btw, the idea that he took over is wrong, too. Hitler was appointed, legally appointed. Which makes the story even more sad. It worked with repression, thread and humiliation, but the president made him chancellor and the political parties let it happen because they believed they could keep him in check. Had the social democrats and the communists worked together (like it happened in some other European countries where right wing powers were on the rise - that was a trend at the time btw. If you compare Europe around 1900 and around 1900 and the numbers of totalitarian and democratic nations... looked bad for democracy on a whole), he could easily have been kept in check. And had the Christian democrats not been sissy and humiliated, he would not have been made chancellor.
FIROUZ
So they did not work together. Politicians never do.
;DSINBAD
Yep. It was an explosive mix at the time. Very problematic social circumstances of a post WWI nation that was traumatised by the lost war (because the defeat came as a total surprise, since people were told that they were still on the winning side), a society in uproar (fear of communism rising in Russia, homecoming soldiers with no place left for them in society, a democracy forced upon a nation not used to democracy that had no trust in parties and politcians), no experience in how to do democracy... add an evil mind like Hitler who grew up in that world to it and: boom!
FIROUZ
My history teacher said that if Hitler tried to help the Russian people overthrow Stalin, then Germany could have won the war.
SINBAD
That´s an interesting theory, but I would say it was not what Hitler wanted, because he didn´t want to colaborate with the Russians. His aim was not to just take over Russia from Stalin, he wanted the land, not its people. According to his hideous ideology, wars served the purpose of "expanding habitat" if you will. He had millions of Russians killed and had programs to settle "Aryan" people in the deserted areas of Russia and other countries east of Germany. The Russian people didn´t matter to him, therefore colaborating with them was not in his field of vision.
FIROUZ
Yes, but if he was smart, then he would have tricked the Russian people that he was helping them to overthrow Stalin. Once Stalin was gone, he could finish taking over Russia.
SINBAD
Well... true. But hey, look at the crap that man wrote. "Smart" is nowhere near the top of the list of adjectives to describe him.
RONGAR
Perhaps, but he didn't so that's a good thing.
Didn't the British PM at that time, and the other UN countries allow him to take more land to appease him though?
I seem to remember my college World History class say something to that effect...?
SINBAD
The other European countries (even the vatican) internationally accepted him first, yes.
Poland literally was wiped off the world map because Stalin and Hitler divided it among themselves.
And one more thing about actions of e.g. the British: I still wonder why none of the bomber fligts they did ever targetted the railway lines towards the concentration camps.
