The history thread

[Sinbad]

But that price was paid for in the past and freedom is an inalienable human right. I think you can not see it either freedom or food here, but if the economy fails there has to be a system that is more effective in the economy section. I do not think it can or should be related to the political system, otherwise there would be no hunger and poverty in China.

[alex]

Well, there is communism. Technically communism is an economic system. And don't you think that have one person (the president) in power for a 3-4 year term is better than having a president and congress that constantly battle with each other. It is different from having a dictator that rules for a long period of time.

[Sinbad]

It is different, yes. But I think it is wrong to give the power to one person alone. History knows many examples of dictatorship gone wrong but I can´t recall a single one where it went well. Not to mention that we are living in the 21st century where we have developed in terms of thinking from times back when monarchy and dictatorship was still the rule.

[alex]

Don't think of it so much as a dictatorship. A dictator holds power for many years or decades. I am talking about an elected president who rules for four years, then he can either get reelected or someone else would come to power. Kind of like a prime minister.

And Yugoslavia went well when run by its last dictator. But after he died, the country fell apart. Ultimately, humans are evil. It doesn't matter how many people run the government. If the wrong people are in power, nothing gets done.

[Sinbad]

Hm, sorry but I don´t like the thought of anyone having that much power. We had that in Germany between 1919 and 1933, there the president had a lot of power and he was only elected for a limited span of time. And it turned out that this system didn´t work in the long run.

[alex]

But that is 14 years, and Germany only had 2 presidents before Hitler came in 1934. So one of the presidents must have ruled for 7 or more years.

[Sinbad]

Yes, the election period was 5 years. Hindenburg stayed president until 1934 even though Hitler came to power in 1933. But Hitler became chancellor and only when Hindenburg died in 1934, Hitler installed the new office of "Führer" that combined the powers of chancellor and president.

The president from 1919-1933/34 had very large areas of power. He had command over the army, he could rule like a dictator with the so called "emergency paragraph" in the constitution meaning that he could dissolve the parliament and command new elections, but in the period towards the new election he could rule alone. It happened several times because democracy back then was still in the early stages, there was no rule for parties to have a certain percentage to be admitted to parliament (today it´s 5%, so we don´t have smaller splinter groups that make things more difficult to reach consensus), and also there was no rule to permit parties that were antidemocratic.
In the end the power of the president turned out to be fatal.

[Sinbad]

Oh and btw, even today we do not have a two elections limit. Here in Germany, a chancellor can stay chancellor as long as his party is the strongest party. For example, we had a chancellor who stayed in power for 16 years and therefore for 4 periods whereas in the States he would have had to resign after 2 periods.

[alex]

Only five years! 14/2 = 7 not 5

Hm, so do you prefer the chancellor ruling the country?

But FDR served for 16 years. ;D *snickers*

[Sinbad]

Ebert from 1919-25
Hindenburg from 25-34

I am pretty sure the election periods were 5 years or maybe it was 7, I am not too sure anymore.

Well, here today, the office of president can be compared to your presidents even though your president has more power. We have a president, too who strictly speaking is of a higher rank as an office than the chancelor, but the role of the president is very, very restricted. It´s result of the 1919-34 president´s role being far too strong and making Hitler possible.
You could compare the power of the German president to that of the Queen in England.

[alex]

And that the allied powers probably had something to do with how the president's powers were set up. Similar to Japan, which also was Gemany's ally in WWII (or one of the axis powers).

[Sinbad]

Oh, they definitely had a say in it, yes.
Until the late 60s, Germany only had limited powers as a state even.

[alex]

You are that old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sinbad]

Huh? I never said that. I was born in 1982.

[alex]

I was just being a smartass. ;D