Conundrum

[manche]

The next great episode of this season.

The first meeting the crew with Scratch. He was my second favourite villian after Rumina (their cooperation was also great), he was clever, manipulative, he had the great plan for fooling the crew (the plan almost came out) and how was said in the different topic, he and Rumina were only enemies who had the personal contact with the crew and this fact did their fight more interesting. We also heard something about the first meeting our brothers with him.

Doubar saved the day, it was the great change. He showed that he is able to respond promptly and that his weakness is his occasional impulsivity (it was shown at the beginning when he made the small mistake by the selling of Rongar), not stupidity, how some people think. It was shown that he has tendency to doubt about himself, but he proved at the end that these rumours are not true. It was nice, how Firouz tried to encourage him at the beginning of the episode.

It was shown that Firouz occasionally thinks that he stands a little apart from the fun of other crewmembers, at the beginning he did not want to hinder Doubar and Rongar in their fun or at the end he was a little out of the merriment the others. But they showed him that they do not think anything similar.

A lot of great moments among the crew, their fear about Rongar, the shock over the loss of Doubar, why Doubar admires Firouz and conversely, the ending scene

The plot was also interesting for me, some funny lines.

I did not like only one thing in this episode. That Maeve was not there almost, i am not sure why, it could be the intention for the script (she would have probably known, that Dim Dym has not any apprentice Sudra) or for a different reason but it was the shame that she was not in the episode which showed a lot of nice moments among the rest of the crew. But she was able to warn her friends at least.

[maeve3000]

I really like that episode.
Firts one with Scratch don't ask me why but I began to love him.

also it told us a lil more of the past of sinbad and Doubar.

[tzigone]

This is actually one of my favorite eps. Though mostly for the story once it gets started, not for the setup.

I can't figure out if Sinbad is playing captain or daddy to Firouz when he gives him a "mission" to go after Doubar. Makes Firouz fell okay about going after them - and he was certainly welcome. Don't think he was just trying to get rid of Firouz there, though.

I was actually surprised by Doubar's "gibberish" and "heathens" comments - for such a well-traveled man, he's very narrow-minded in regards to other religions and languages (not that he's ever commented on anyone's religion in any other eps, and we know he meets "homage to the spirits" types and likely-Christians). And I have to groan whenever threatening someone to speak your language actually works. I do like how he figures after the fight is a good time to sit down and have a friendly drink. More and more I like the idea that how he and Mustapha became friends. And we really do get some insight into Doubar's insecurities, here.

As I've said before, I'm very interested in when Sinbad's changing perception of Dermott. Here at first he makes flippant comments to Dermott, but doesn't really seem to be trying to communicate. Only after Dermott continues does he ask if something's wrong and start to seem to be operating in a two-way conversation instead of just talking at the bird. And then Dermott puts an image in his head and he's all "lead the way."

And then when Sinbad finds the other, I'm again unsure if he's in captain-mode or dad-mode...really, though, I do think the rest of the crew should be portrayed as competent professionals in the own right.

"We have different mothers" - corniest of jokes, but it gets a chuckle out of me every time.

Scratch-as-Sudra is a really bad actor. Good think the good guys are such straight-forward hero-types that they never consider a damsel-in-distress might be a bad guy.

"That's convenient" (in regards to Scratch being responsible for the evil that men do) - I absolutely love that line. Very in keeping with my way of thinking, where gods and devils cannot be praised or blamed for the actions that people take.

I really do like how Firouz is trying to figure things out - it's in his nature. I like that about him. And I like the later part when he admits the helmet might distract him, too.

And we get a Doubar-backstory. I don't think it means the same thing to Sinbad - I think he was too young to remember. But even with the devil tempting him, child-Doubar would not let go of his brother to save himself. Just because there's temptation doesn't mean you give in. Though his view of Scratch there is interesting - saying Scratch twists mens' thoughts. Normal fear for his life is twisted into an urging to sacrifice a loved one to save himself.

Then we meet the wind-worshipper. I just really like him. He's just entertaining and engaging.

And even after the attack, Sinbad stills asks for the helmet (and will later offer it back) rather than just taking it. Good guy Sinbad.

This scene brings me to the other point that I've mentioned before - I can't perceive any of the characters as monotheists, even if they were raised Muslim & Christian - they all accept other gods with no qualms at all. And frankly, they meet several over the course the series (Poseidon, Coyote, and Olokun). By the way, am I only the geeky enough to enjoy looking up all the gods mentioned in this episode...yeah, I thought so.

Really love how desperately Sinbad does not want to leave Doubar behind. The others are pulling him away...do they think Doubar has already been eaten (before the proper eating we see)?

I like how Sinbad looks at Sundra after she calls Dermott a "feathered freak" - Scratch broke character there. Wonder why the hate for Dermott?

Dim-Dim is amazingly powerful, since he literally chained the devil. On the other hand, a minion blew him away with breath. Guess he had to time to prepare for the first one - like I used to hear at the end of G.I. Joe - "knowing is half the battle." Or else he somehow allowed that to happen in the first ep because he knew it was for some reason needed for the greater good.

So, how did Scratch escape - last we saw him, he was bleating as the cave crumbled around him. Did the collapse free him - the our crew inadvertently free him by breaking those skulls.

Now that I think about it - did they ever learn that Scratch was free in "The Vengeance of Rumina" - I mean, if I did a post first season AU, could they still not know that he's alive and free?

[manche]

Apr 20, 2015 20:07:46 GMT -5 tzigone said:

I can't figure out if Sinbad is playing captain or daddy to Firouz when he gives him a "mission" to go after Doubar. Makes Firouz fell okay about going after them - and he was certainly welcome. Don't think he was just trying to get rid of Firouz there, though.

I do not also think that Sinbad would try to rid of Firouz there. We know that Doubar of the first season was really too hasty and impulsive sometimes, so maybe Sinbad wanted to have certainty that something wrong did not happen. Rongar definitely is not a same case, but maybe Sinbad assumed that two guardians are better than one.

I was actually surprised by Doubar's "gibberish" and "heathens" comments - for such a well-traveled man, he's very narrow-minded in regards to other religions and languages (not that he's ever commented on anyone's religion in any other eps, and we know he meets "homage to the spirits" types and likely-Christians). And I have to groan whenever threatening someone to speak your language actually works. I do like how he figures after the fight is a good time to sit down and have a friendly drink. More and more I like the idea that how he and Mustapha became friends. And we really do get some insight into Doubar's insecurities, here.

Yeah, Doubar did not show big interest about different cultures and their specific approach to the world. He undoubtedly met with them, but I do not think that he would try to understand them better and examine them a little more. Firouz is a such type of a man, but I do not think this about Doubar.

As I mentioned in a different topic, I think that Mustapha and Doubar understood each other very well. We can not know how long time they spent together in one prison, but they probably became friends very quickly. And I agree, although this episode was not primarily focused on Doubar, we learnt a lot of about him in this episode.

As I've said before, I'm very interested in when Sinbad's changing perception of Dermott. Here at first he makes flippant comments to Dermott, but doesn't really seem to be trying to communicate. Only after Dermott continues does he ask if something's wrong and start to seem to be operating in a two-way conversation instead of just talking at the bird. And then Dermott puts an image in his head and he's all "lead the way."

I also like how the relationship between them was developing during the first season. Although I am not sure how much he figured out about the true identity of Dermott until the end of the first season.

Scratch-as-Sudra is a really bad actor. Good think the good guys are such straight-forward hero-types that they never consider a damsel-in-distress might be a bad guy.

He could not be such a bad actor, when all guys caught in his trap, do not you think? He was really very close to winning in this episode. And I agree, none of them got an idea that she could lie to them. They were not in touch with Dim Dym for a longer time, so they could not be aware if he had more witch's apprentices. Maybe if Maeve was there with them, she would be more suspicious? Or she would even know that any Sudra does not exist?

"That's convenient" (in regards to Scratch being responsible for the evil that men do) - I absolutely love that line. Very in keeping with my way of thinking, where gods and devils cannot be praised or blamed for the actions that people take.

I definitely agree. They can try to lure them into their clutches, but people have free will and they make their own decisions.

I really do like how Firouz is trying to figure things out - it's in his nature. I like that about him. And I like the later part when he admits the helmet might distract him, too.

Oh, Firouz and his interest about this helmet was amazing. And he was always a member of the crew who tried to explore a situation more deeply, to understand why something happens and how exactly. It totally fits to his scientific character.

Then we meet the wind-worshipper. I just really like him. He's just entertaining and engaging.

He was a good character, really. I like his final scene where he was smiling these wind warriors caught in the sacks. I hope that they did not free themselves in the future, it would not be a pleasant situation for him without this helmet.

This scene brings me to the other point that I've mentioned before - I can't perceive any of the characters as monotheists, even if they were raised Muslim & Christian - they all accept other gods with no qualms at all. And frankly, they meet several over the course the series (Poseidon, Coyote, and Olokun). By the way, am I only the geeky enough to enjoy looking up all the gods mentioned in this episode...yeah, I thought so.

Please tell me, which god was Coyote and in which episode he appeared?

Really love how desperately Sinbad does not want to leave Doubar behind. The others are pulling him away...do they think Doubar has already been eaten (before the proper eating we see)?

A great scene, very well acted by Zen. They did not want to leave him behind, but they were forced to do it when they could not win the fight with this creature. They could not save Doubar and they would die together with him.

I like how Sinbad looks at Sundra after she calls Dermott a "feathered freak" - Scratch broke character there. Wonder why the hate for Dermott?

I think that Scratch realized there that Dermott will not be fooled by his masking. He had the abilities to perceive things which normal people can't. Scratch was so close to the winning and his freedom again and suddenly one little bird (from his point of view) should spoil it? I am not surprised that his reaction was wrathful and not very clever in the given situation.

Dim-Dim is amazingly powerful, since he literally chained the devil. On the other hand, a minion blew him away with breath. Guess he had to time to prepare for the first one - like I used to hear at the end of G.I. Joe - "knowing is half the battle." Or else he somehow allowed that to happen in the first ep because he knew it was for some reason needed for the greater good.

I think that you got a point here. He was prepared for the fight with Scratch, but he was not prepared for the meeting with Admir. He had to know a lot of about Scratch and according this information he chose the best strategy for his catching. On the other hand, although he was feeling some evil on the board and maybe he was able to connect it with Admir, he still did not know which creature he is and which powers he possesses. And this fact was fatal for him.

Now that I think about it - did they ever learn that Scratch was free in "The Vengeance of Rumina" - I mean, if I did a post first season AU, could they still not know that he's alive and free?

It does not look that they would know about this fact. They have seen only armies of Rumina, their confrontation was indirect this time. I think that could not know about the Scratch's presence or about his resurrection of Turock in this episode. Maybe they knew this fact later off-screen, because Sinbad does not seem to be very surprised by the fact that Scratch is free in Hell House. Rumina was not a topic in the second season anymore and Scratch appeared only in the final episode.

[tzigone]

Please tell me, which god was Coyote and in which episode he appeared?

"The Trickster" - he's a Native American trickster god. Maeve calls the Trickster "Coyote" (must have learned about him from Dim-Dim) and Rumina calls him "Eshu" (another trickster god, Yoruba, like Olokun, according to Google) and IIRC, Maeve says he has many names.

[Firouz]

You say Maeve said Scratch has many names; well this could be a way for the show to bring in an eclectic grouping of characters and simply explain them all away as the different ethnic races and how their individual religions and cultures 'molded' God, gods, angels, demons.....ect. When in fact, they are all ONE person/demon/angel but with different looks and personas depending on the culture they are worshipped in.

[tzigone]

May 9, 2015 9:58:49 GMT -5 Firouz said:

You say Maeve said Scratch has many names; well this could be a way for the show to bring in an eclectic grouping of characters and simply explain them all away as the different ethnic races and how their individual religions and cultures 'molded' God, gods, angels, demons.....ect. When in fact, they are all ONE person/demon/angel but with different looks and personas depending on the culture they are worshipped in.

I don't think that's the case. While the Trickster has many names and is several different gods, in this episode, it's explicitly stated all the wind gods gathered in this location, so there are multiple wind gods. 

Honestly, while I don't think the show has a consistent mythology/direction in regards to the gods and such, it actually makes a sort of sense that the Trickster would be the only one that is multiple gods - he's deliberately deceiving people into thinking he's many different beings, because that's the trick/prank.  Double points if he's also tricking other gods...and now I'm thinking of him trying to trick Scratch...that would be fun to me. 

[Firouz]

[manche]

When the crew was deciding if they should tell their adventure to the other members of the crew, Doubar offered Maeve that she should know it was him who saved the world. Why did he want to impress her? Some ulterior motives?