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Post by hannibal on Jun 19, 2013 11:30:58 GMT -5
First of all, yes, i do like most season 1... But season 2 isn't as bad as some may think.
I've just finished re-watching the entirely second season, one episode per day. Season 2 was supposed to be the bridge between season 1 and season 3, but with the third season being cancelled, season 2 is a bridge to no-where. But when you read past-interviews by Ed Naha about what would have been season 3, you start to understand why they made the second season like that.
Second season is darker. Yes, it's darker because the producers wanted it that way, but it's that way because they wanted to show us what Sinbad was feeling after the lost of his loved one, Maeve. During season 2, you can really see that Sinbad is lost between his heart and anger. We can all understand it with Hell house. Everything is explained (The Mala speech to Sinbad, Sinbad reaction, etc.) Yes, i agree that season 2 didn't had a main plot, but they had to put it this way, because they wanted to develop the change of Sinbad AND they wanted to indroduce Brynn.
They couldn't just start and return with DimDim, Rumina, etc. We needed to understand all the anger of Sinbad before returning to that main plot. Hell house was the finale of season 2, BUT it was the set-up for the third season. In Hell house, Sinbad finally realize how he changed since the lost of Maeve by killing people, acting by anger, etc. When Scratch makes Sinbad look at the reflect of himself in the Mirror, that's when Sinbad understand. A good reality check. To me, and by Ed Naha's word, Sinbad from season 1 would have been back in Season 3. And at the end of Hell house, we can see the serenity in Sinbad's face. The same Sinbad that we loved in season 1.
All in all, season 2 was good. It was necessary. We needed to see the evolution of Sinbad and of all the characters. Season 2 would have been more liked, if there would have been Season 3.
PS: At the end of Hell house, when they all on the boat, i would have loved so much to see Sinbad back with his red bandana, to remind us that the "good" Sinbad is back.
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Post by manche on Jun 19, 2013 12:19:18 GMT -5
I agree in some points with you.
I completely agree with the darker atmosphere, season one has moments which were a little serious, but it was more funny with the optimistic mood, but there it was more serious, without fun (i remember a lot of funny lines from the first season, but i am not sure, if the humour was present in the second season at all).
If the primary intention of the change of Sinbad's character was shown how he was destroyed after the loss of Maeve, I am not sure of this. The events in the hell house would testify about it, but without this episode I am not sure if i would think the same thing.
Bryn was really interesting character, but i needed time to get used to her. If the leaving of Maeve and the coming of Bryn was better done I think that some people would accept Bryn differently.
What I really do not like about the second season was the killing of the minor characters. In most cases, their presence was only intended to show how big problem the main characters have and their deaths should bring more tension to this situation. But it did not work for me.
I disagree with the absence of Rumina, Turock and other characters. I am not sure if they are so nice that they gave Sinbad the time for the reflections over the loss of Maeve or Bryn the time for practising her skills. Rumina tried to kill Maeve in the first episode, Bryn should have been the key for her defeat and the rest of the season any mention of her? Turock was alive and he did not have the taste to avenge Sinbad or the others that they had killed him? I would welcomed an explanation of this. And the next interesting characters were removed for example Omar or Cairpa, the Beast of Basra would be better with them instead of their replacements (although the character of Albetta was quite interesting for me).
The Hell house was the great episode. There was a connection with the first season, the great villian, we met the mother of our brothers, a lot of emotions, certain resolving of Sinbad's relationship towards Maeve, we could have seen how our captain realised his character changes (i like the scene, when he was watching the events in the Scratch's mirror, the events which were the most important for him and he blamed himself that he did not manage to help in these cases).
I agree that the second season was the bridge for the next season and it is the shame that this bridge was not finished in the form of the third season.
It is good but I needed more time for the acceptance all changes which came with second season. and I guess that i was not alone.
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Post by Doubar on Jun 19, 2013 14:22:53 GMT -5
Aw, it's true indeed that sadly enough S2 turned out to be a bridge into nothingness. And it's also true that as the M/S fans we are we can see Sinbad's change and interpret it as being reasoned by him losing Maeve. However, I fear I have to agree with Manche and say that I doubt this was the real thought behind it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think that the changes did mainly come because the producers wanted them. Sure enough the script writers and Naha did their best to give them meaning and tie them into the overall concept as best as they could, but the main reason behind S2 being the way it was I think was way more random and arbitrary. And as for Bryn's introduction: Like I have often said before I, too think that much more people would have come to like her, had that been done in another way. But we can't blame the script-writers really because they had to make the best of the situation they were given - and that one was Jacky and the producers having parted.  Same with Rumina and Turok who I believe weren't present because of salary issues. Why Omar didn't return though even when his actor appeared in an ep, I have absolutely idea about. *shrugs* Anyhow, what I definitely agree on with you though, Hannibal, is that Season two was way better than many of us remembered it to be (me included).  I, too, had to notice that when I re-watched the entire season two or three years ago. Aw, now that would have been great indeed. Though I guess we don't need to see the bandana to know that the old Sinbad returned, or that he at least made his peace with himself and the situation.  |
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Post by manche on Jun 19, 2013 15:52:49 GMT -5
Aw, it's true indeed that sadly enough S2 turned out to be a bridge into nothingness. And it's also true that as the M/S fans we are we can see Sinbad's change and interpret it as being reasoned by him losing Maeve. However, I fear I have to agree with Manche and say that I doubt this was the real thought behind it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think that the changes did mainly come because the producers wanted them. Sure enough the script writers and Naha did their best to give them meaning and tie them into the overall concept as best as they could, but the main reason behind S2 being the way it was I think was way more random and arbitrary. I read this also in Sinbad's bio, but i doubt about it. During the whole season it looked that he completely forgot to her. In the first season it looked that he has the serious interest about her and in the next season he became the captain Casanova. The final episode was great, but this motif looked a little created by force, suddenly "Maeve" was back in his mind, as if she lost the day before. About the rest of the crew and their approaches towards her fate I talked several times, it is not necessary to repeat it again. The friendship among the crew i like more in the first season, it was more obvious there, one big happy family, in the second season Doubar, Firouz and Rongar were a little taken a back seat, there were nice moments, but it was very different than in the season one. |
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Post by hannibal on Jun 19, 2013 21:51:41 GMT -5
I think that by making Hell house, Ed Naha wanted us to know finally why Sinbad changed so much after he lost Maeve AND he was setting up Season 3. manche: If you re-watch every episode of Season 2, you will see that there are a lot of funny lines ala S1. I was impressed myself when i started to Watch them all over again. And if you guys can remember, in season 1, between the first and last episode, it was 1 year. Rumina was "celebrating" the first year of the death of her father... In Season 2, we can think that it's been 1 year between Sinbad loosing Maeve and Hell House... And when you loose somebody you REALLY love, it can take you easily a year to find yourself again. So, in my mind, i can understand why season 2 was like that. Maybe "the dark change" of S2 was because the producers wanted it that way. But, in the end, Ed Naha saved the day, by letting us know that Sinbad was darker because he lost Maeve. |
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Post by Doubar on Jun 20, 2013 14:27:01 GMT -5
Yeah, there's indeed quite some humour in S2 as well, though I always remembered it to be a bit different from the S1 humour. At any rate though I think that this is indeed the key conclusion: That S2 was the way it was because the producers wanted it to be like this, no matter what fans wanted and no matter what Naha said. But S3 would have been his work again and we can see that in Hell House already. And in this regard, I do agree with the reasoning that Naha might have wanted to give us a reason why, to tie S2 into the grander scheme of things and let us know that there was a reason to what we saw (heh, there's a reason for everything, right? ^^). |
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Post by hannibal on Jun 27, 2013 11:25:49 GMT -5
At any rate though I think that this is indeed the key conclusion: That S2 was the way it was because the producers wanted it to be like this, no matter what fans wanted and no matter what Naha said. But S3 would have been his work again and we can see that in Hell House already. And in this regard, I do agree with the reasoning that Naha might have wanted to give us a reason why, to tie S2 into the grander scheme of things and let us know that there was a reason to what we saw (heh, there's a reason for everything, right? ^^). Yes, you are right! Naha saved the day with Hell House. He tied S2 and S1 together. And for me, it makes S2 very good knowing that Sinbad is darker because he lost Maeve, etc. |
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Post by Doubar on Jun 27, 2013 14:15:57 GMT -5
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Post by manche on Jun 27, 2013 14:30:31 GMT -5
I also like this episode because of the connection the both seasons and I really like the thought that Sinbad became darker because of the loss of Maeve.
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I, too, had to notice that when I re-watched the entire season two or three years ago. 